Muslim community in Hanoi
Sent: woensdag 6 oktober 2004 19:33
To: Vietnam Studies Group
Subject: Muslim community in Hanoi
Dear list:
This is an idle question, perhaps, but I have long been curious about it. In the early 1990s, I lived briefly in the 36 streets section of Hanoi. Across from my house was an office of the Communist Party. But what really struck me was not the existence of the party office, but the words, written in faded paint, on the side of that office:
La allah illa Allah wa mohammed al-rasul Allah (There is no God but God, and Mohammed is his prophet) all in Arabic script.
This struck me as a perfect metaphor for religion in Vietnam at that time: everpresent, but invisible in some ways to the party, which could not see what was before its own eyes. (Or, to a believer, who really was in charge. . .)
But I also wondered: why was this core statement of Muslim belief on a wall in the heart of Hanoi? Had the Party taken over a religious building? If so, who were these Muslims?
Any suggestions? Elucidation?
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History and International Affairs
Associate Director, Sigur Center for Asian Studies
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:43:39 +0200
From: John Kleinen <J.G.G.M.Kleinen@uva.nl
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Muslim community in Hanoi
Shawn,
I am not sure where you lived in the 36th street section, but there is a mosque in Hanoi (Chua An Do) which functions normally today (be it with a few Vietnamese Muslims). It was founded in 1898 or around that time. Until 1954, Indian Muslims and Maroccon etc. soldiers of de CEFEO used it intensively.
Maybe the place you saw was ane extension of it. One of my students studied the place.
Best regards,
JOHN
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Jean Michaud wrote:
Dear Shawn,
Interesting. So many options can spring to mind. For one, could it be related to Hui (Ho, Haw, Panthai) traders living in colonial Hanoi as satellites of the China trade networks, who also often acted as official 'magasin general' (opium, salt, commodities, pharmacopea) for the colonial administration? For what I can say, such traders were installed in all major trading posts along the Red River (my evidence is in Chapa) at least until 1945.
Jean Michaud
Montreal University
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:27:13 +0900
From: Rie Nakamura <nakamura@toyotafound.or.jp
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Muslim community in Hanoi
Dear List,
If I remember correctly, I recall the story I was told by an Imam in the mosque in Dong Du street in HCM city. He was invited to serve as Imam in Hai Phong before (I have to check my notes for the exact date). According to him previously there were several mosques along the coast of Vietnam, Hanoi, Hai Phong, Da Nang, Nha Trang (the mosque in Da Nang is now a private house, and the mosque in Nha Trang is also transformed into a government office ), and Indian Muslim seemed to be congregated in these mosques. Before 1975, many Indian Muslim merchants had their shops on Dong Khai street in Ho Chi Minh city (some descendants still have shops in Dong Khai), and they seemed to be actively involving commerce and trade. Two beautiful mosques in Ho Chi Minh city are originally established by Indian Muslim, and there is a grave yard of the Indian Muslim people on the Cach Mang Thang Tam street, which was Escaped from the relocation of the grave yard to out side of the city. I had an impression that these mosques found in Vietnam may be an evident of Indian Muslim merchants involvement in commerce in Vietnam. A friend of mine is now doing her research in Pondichery which was a former French protectorate, and many Indian people seemed to migrate into Vietnam.
Rie Nakamura
The Toyota Foundation
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 11:35:21 -0500
From: Daniel Unger <TI0DHU1@wpo.cso.niu.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Muslim community in Hanoi, 1999 census results
As long as we are getting specific, let me note that when I asked a
Japanese official in Hanoi in 2002 about Japanese business interest in
Vietnam and, specifically, the Hanoi area, he whipped from his inside pocket what I took to be briefing notes and informed me that there were x Muslims in Hanoi (x being a specific number smaller than 100.) This presumably was by way of saying--the investment climate here has its reassuring facets.
From: daniel.m.goodkind@census.gov
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Muslim community in Hanoi, 1999 census results
After reading Shawn's post, I was curious to return to Vietnam's 1999 census, which asked about religious affiliation.
For the record, according to the full census results, 62 people in Hanoi claimed to be Muslim. For Vietnam as a whole, 63,147 claimed to be Muslim.
Granted, there are a host of questions one might raise about how to interpret responses/underreporting regarding religious affilication. For instance, around 98 percent of Hanoi residents profess "no religion" (neither Buddist, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Cao Dai, or Hoa Hao, nor "not stated"). In Vietnam as a whole, about 80 percent profess "no religion."
Religious affiliation is also available from the 3 percent household sample from the 1999 census, which allows all kinds of analytic possibilities for those so inclined.
Daniel
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 09:00:45 -0400
From: Hy Van Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Muslim community in Hanoi
Dear Shawn,
You may know about Nguyen van Uan's 2,700-page history of Hanoi streets and quarters in the first half of the 20th century, originally published in 1995 and reprinted at least once already. If you do not have access to this book, and if you give me the name of the street, I can look up in my copy to see whether there is more precise information.
Hy
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:26:31 +0200
From: Malte Stokhof <M.Stokhof@fsw.vu.nl
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Muslim community in Hanoi.
Dear List, Shawn,
I have taken a closer look at the history of Islam in Vietnam as part of my research on Muslim Austronesian language speaking Communities living in the South of Vietnam. One of the things that I looked at and I am still working on is the history of and the current state of Muslim communities in the north including those connected to the mosque in Hanoi.
My research is still in progress and I still need to verify certain data related to this subject, but I may have some answers to the questions raised by the list.
Shawn McHale:
Q: "why was this core statement of Muslim belief on a wall in the heart of Hanoi?"
It is difficult of course to find out why anyone writes something on a wall on some given time, so I can't help you there. I wonder if you were talking about Hàng Lu?c Street (12) in Hanoi where mosque Al Nuhr is located? According to informants this mosque has been built prior to 1885.
Q: "But I also wondered: Had the Party taken over a religious building?
As Rie Nakamura noted, indeed mosques have been and still are used as government offices, as is the case in H?i Phòng. To my knowledge mosque Al Nuhr has not been used as a government office since it was built, but in the late thirties it had been abandoned and local people had squatted and used it as a shelter.
Q: "If so, who were these Muslims?"
At present, Vietnam has multiple Muslim communities. In the past various Muslims have entered and or lived in Vietnam, but here I will limit myself to those in the North. Those before mosque Al Nuhr was built: Arab and Persian merchants and Chinese Muslims.
Those that frequented mosque Al Nuhr: English subjects from South India and Bombay; English subjects from North India and South Afghanistan; Turks; French Indian subjects from Pondicherry; the French Armed Forces, from Morocco Africa and Senegal, Muslim expatriate community and lastly there are the local Vietnamese Muslims, converted or kin from mixed marriages.
From the beginning of the 19th century and on, English subjects from Bombay, Karachi and Calcutta, settled down in the north and south of Vietnam. These rich, Indian merchants were most likely Parsi. These were descendants of Zoroastrian artisans, merchants and shipbuilders, originally from Iran who settled in Bombay and Surat north of Bombay in 1665. Some also came from the coast on the southeastern part. Around 1930 there were a thousand of them in Indochina. They formed a large group of well-to-do businessmen, specialized in the sale of fabrics and the change of money. They were to be found in the large markets, buying and selling cotton, silk, and jewellery. Their stores were located in the streets of all the major cities. In Hanoi they lived grouped around 'rue De la Soie' Silk Street where they bought silk from Chinese merchants and shipped this to India and Singapore. This group was rich and big enough to build mosques. English subjects from South India and Bombay built the mosque Al Nuhr in Hanoi around 1885 along with other mosques in the South. Today the mosque is frequented every Friday at 1200 by a varied group of Muslims, most of them expatriates connected to embassies from Malaysia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Indonesia India, Algeria, Yemen, Iraq, Vietnam, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Approximately forty people attend the prayers. Although informants tell me that there are approximately seven 'Vietnamese Muslims' in Hanoi, often even less join in the prayers on Friday.
There exists a so-called Mosque Management Committee made up of five embassies and headed by one: in 2001 e.g. these were the Egyptian embassy, Libyan embassy, Indonesian embassy, the Algerian embassy and the Iraqi embassy. The embassies from Muslim countries each take part in the committee, but in different years.
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:27:04 -0400
From: Tam Tai <hhtai@fas.harvard.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Muslim community in Hanoi, 1999 census results
For instance, around 98 percent of Hanoi residents profess "no religion" (neither Buddist, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Cao Dai, or Hoa Hao, nor "not stated"). In Vietnam as a whole, about 80 percent profess "no religion."
Indeed, this claim begs for interpretation. Is this why temples are thronged on religious days?
Hue-Tam
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:50:13 -0400
From: Shawn McHale <mchale@gwu.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu
Subject: Thanks for the Muslims in Hanoi postings
List:
I just wanted to thank all of you for your informative answers to my query on Muslims in Hanoi. Someone asked if the place I saw was on Hang Luoc; I confess I have forgot! (I was housesitting at the Mennonite Central Committee office for a brief time -- it would have been around Hang Luoc then).
Shawn McHale
Associate Professor of History and International Affairs
Associate Director, Sigur Center for Asian Studies
George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA