Vietnam's Younger Generation
From darlenedamm@mac.com Fri Jul 16 09:02:43 2004
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:32:07 -0400
From: Darlene Damm <darlenedamm@mac.com>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Vietnam's younger generation
Hello Vietnamese Studies Group,
My name is Darlene Damm, and I've spent some time working with some US-Vietnam educational exchange programs, and recently completed my MA degree in Southeast Asia studies at Johns Hopkins/SAIS. One of the reasons that I wanted to pursue a career in Southeast Asia studies is because I really like the community of people working on Southeast Asia issues. It seems like everyone in the field knows each other, and as evidenced by this list, people really enjoy helping one another out and cooperating on issues. I really admire that and am very excited to meet/join all of you!
I also wanted to share a though/observation with you. I am really interested in what the younger generation of Vietnamese thinks about Vietnam and its role in the world (people in their twenties.) The last time I was in Hanoi, I felt that there was an increasing divide forming in the younger generation about where Vietnam should head. When I asked one friend to help me better understand Vietnam, he took me to a nightclub/disco and told me that his life-long dream is to open up his own disco. When I asked another friend the same thing, she took me to Ho Chi Minh's Masoleum, and as we waited in line to enter, she told me about Ho Chi Minh's life and began crying she was so touched by him. I also began asking the younger generation the question, "What do you think Vietnam's contribution to the world can be?" Some young people felt very strongly that Vietnam was going to be able to demonstrate to the world that socialism still works and provide a working model for the world, and others said that Vietnam was struggling so much internally that it was not in a position to contribute anything to the world.
I was wondering what your experiences with Vietnam's younger generation has been, or if anyone knows of any survey's that have been conducted about how the younger generation views itself and Vietnam?
Thanks so much!
Darlene
From vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca Fri Jul 16 09:03:03 2004
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 20:53:27 -0400
From: Hy Van Luong <vanluong@chass.utoronto.ca>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Vietnam's younger generation
Hello Darlene,
Two studies of Vietnamese youth come to my mind: David Marr's publication and Christopher Roberts' Ph.D. dissertation research in Anthropology at Cornell U.. You can find the exact reference of the former by visiting the Australian National U. website. I know a bit about Roberts' dissertation topic, but not enough about whether there have been conference papers or publications from his research.
Hy V. Luong
Dept. of Anthropology
University of Toronto
Toronto, ON, Canada M5S 3G3.
From andrew@ffrd.org Fri Jul 16 09:03:14 2004
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:42:06 +0700
From: Andrew Wells-Dang <andrew@ffrd.org>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Vietnam's younger generation
Dear Darlene: for a general overview of how Vietnamese are thinking about the world, and how this stacks up with the rest of the world, you might want to look at the Pew Global Attitudes Project; see the below article and another from June 2003 at http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=1764&page=1. Both articles make some reference to a generation gap in attitudes, though this isn't their main focus.
Does anyone on the list know how Pew conducts their surveys? Is it possible that a cultural (and political?) bias towards telling good news to outsiders might affect the results?
--Andrew
Andrew Wells-Dang
Fund for Reconciliation & Development
Hanoi
Happiness is... being Vietnamese
December 05 2002 at 11:16AM
Hanoi - They think their country is doing better than most of the world, that their children have a bright future and are optimistic that life will be better five years from today.
Americans? No, Vietnamese.
Despite decades of war and poverty, residents of this fast-growing, communist-ruled country seem to be the most upbeat in Asia, according to a survey conducted by the Washington Pew Research Centre in Wsshington and published by the International Herald Tribune on Thursday.
The survey, which asked six questions relating to happiness and outlook, covered 38 000 people in 44 countries worldwide.
The Vietnamese figures were the highest for any country in the global survey. In Asia respondents were from Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, China, India and Bangladesh.
Vietnamese gave a satisfaction rating of 69 percent to the state of their nation and 51 percent for the state of the world.
In those categories, the Vietnamese figures were the highest or equal-highest for any country in the global survey.
The respondents in the south-east Asian country of 80 million were more muted about the quality of their lives, rating that at 43 percent, but they were still happier in that respect than the people of any other Asian country except South Korea.
And they were even more positive about their children.
'This seems evidence that the information campaign is reaching people'
An overwhelming 98 percent of Vietnam respondents said they expected that children of today in their country would be better off when they grew up.
Again, it was the most positive figure among any country surveyed globally.
But that may be unsurprising, given the rapid progress in Vietnam since it abandoned a centrally planned blueprint.
The country's economy has been growing by at least seven percent a year, almost as quickly as China's and South Korea's.
Annual incomes average $400 (about R4 000) per person.
The results did not surprise a few observers of the country.
Sesto Vecchi, an American lawyer in Ho Chi Minh City who has resided for 18 years in Vietnam, said optimism is especially evident among the younger ones, who did not live through the wars.
"The older people probably have a vastly different experience," said Vecchi.
Like many other countries in the world, Vietnamese ranked satisfaction with family lives higher than with either their household incomes or jobs.
Sixty-nine percent of Vietnam respondents expected their lives to be better five years from now, the second highest rating in Asia, behind Indonesia's 73 percent.
Asked to rate the five dangers posing the greatest threat to the world, Vietnam broke away from the pack to pick infectious diseases and Aids as the number-one threat.
Other Asian countries were far more worried about nuclear weapons, religious and ethic hatred, environmental troubles or the gap between rich and poor.
Vietnam's focus was heartening to the United Nations Development Programme chief representative Jordan Ryan, whose agency has been promoting HIV and Aids prevention and awareness in Vietnam.
"This seems evidence that the information campaign is reaching people," said Hanoi-based Ryan.
Vietnamese respondents were least interested in the wealth gap.
The Philippines' biggest fear is nuclear weapons, while the world's most populous Muslim country, Indonesia, selected religious and ethnic hatred as the number-one threat to the world.
Pollution and the environment was selected by a majority of China respondents as the biggest danger to the planet.
From OJHM.Salemink@fsw.vu.nl Fri Jul 16 09:03:37 2004
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 12:08:23 +0200
From: Oscar Salemink <OJHM.Salemink@fsw.vu.nl>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Vietnam's younger generation
Last year Nguyen Phuong An defended her doctoral dissertation on youth culture in Hanoi at the University of Hull.
Oscar Salemink
From m.digregorio@fordfound.org Fri Jul 16 09:03:46 2004
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 03:09:18 -0700
From: Michael DiGregorio <m.digregorio@fordfound.org>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Vietnam's younger generation
Peter Xenos at the East West Center has been working with the General Statistical Office on a survey of young people in Vietnam.
Mike
Michael DiGregorio, PhD
Program Officer
Arts & Culture, Education & Scholarship
The Ford Foundation
198 Tran Quang Khai Street, Suites 1502-4
Hanoi, Vietnam
Tel: 84-4-934-9766
Fax: 84-4-934-9765
From nong@uci.edu Fri Jul 16 09:03:54 2004
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nhu-Ngoc Ong <nong@uci.edu>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Vietnam's younger generation
Hi Darlene,
The World Values Survey conducted in Vietnam in 2001 is now available, I believe, through the ICPSR server at U. of Michigan. It has the usual demographic questions, so you can easily do some analyses and get a general picture on Vietnamese youth's attitudes toward different socio-political, cultural, economic issues. (Dan Tsang would know how to get access to that data set).
Unlike the Pew survey which was conducted only in urban areas, the WVS was done through stratified sampling procedure using the census. Of course, cautions should always be taken when interpreting survey data.
The WVS website is: http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org
Vietnamese-WVS: http://www.democ.uci.edu/archive/vietnam.htm
I also wrote a paper on generational differences/similarities in attitudes toward democracy and market economy, of which an earlier draft is still posted on the Vietnamese-WVS website.
Regards,
Nhu-Ngoc
From cjr11@cornell.edu Fri Jul 16 09:04:21 2004
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christophe J.p. Robert <cjr11@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Vietnam's younger generation - a few comments
I have a few comments in response to Darlene Damm's questions about VN younger generation(s). These are not answers, but basic questions for further discussion.
Coming on the heels of 4th July/Independence Day celebrations in the US, I was struck by the "national" frame of Darlene's questions.
I'm going to pull the typical anthropologist's move: first, when speaking of young Vietnamese, which young Vietnamese are we talking about? (from where, from which regions and cities? urban/rural? how young? Which gender? what family and educational backgrounds? etc.) And second, more vexingly perhaps, which "Vietnam" are we dealing with here? (i.e., what do one's interlocutors mean when they say VN - this is related to the previous question.)
In other words, I'm not opposed to asking questions about "Vietnam" but I'd keep in mind that this frame of reference is also one under which a lot of (young) Vietnamese are chafing. Their daily concerns may not be about the national question per se, or only occasionally so, and often as a result of the demands of the educational curriculum.
What's interesting is the ways in which the issue of the nation pops up in unlikely moments in quite unrelated conversations. From my experience in SG, in discussions in which my interlocutors rejected Hanoi's (or "northern") notions of ... pretty much everything they still asserted their "love of country" (yeu nuoc).
This merits attention: What does "love of country" mean here, and which country is in play then? Very schematically, it seemed often that what they were doing was asserting "Vietnam" (and/or a southern or Saigonese regional identity--by which they meant a cosmopolitan one as opposed to a "nha que" HN) as a way to undermine or critique politics in, or coming from, Hanoi. These ideological constructs - often disguised as stereotypes - are flowing freely in both North-South directions. To me they themselves are important objects of study, for the sociological and historical realities they both obscure and reveal.
I think Darlene's two examples are striking, but one would have probably gotten very different answers in Saigon/TPHCM. I think the belief that socialism could still provide a model needs to be taken with a grain of salt when it pops up in conversation with us foreigners, especially in HN. It's quite unlikely one would hear this in the south, for obvious reasons. But that contrast itself provides a great structure for further research.
I also assume that "younger generation" means post-war generations. But even within that time period one would encounter quite different "thanh nien," some born in the late 70s and some born in 1985, for instance. Sociologically, those ten short years would create a huge difference in life experiences and horizons of expectation, not to mention ideas of what "Vietnam" is about.
Again, this may be especially true in the South as a result of direct experiences (or not) within a youth's family of "cai tao" (reeducation), "vuot bien" (fleeing by sea), deprivation, and subsequent "mo cua" (open door period). A youth born in, say, 1986 would have very different experiences of these difficult years (namely, through family memories that may or may not be repressed) than someone born in 75-77 who would have experienced them directly as a child.
I still think that Pr Marr's article on VN youth in the 1990s is the best introduction to the question, especially since he deals with surveys and brings the depth of his own historical perspective to bear on the question(this article can be profitably compared with his research on youth in the 1960s).
"Consuming urban culture in contemporary Vietnam," edited by Lisa Drummond and Mandy Thomas(2003), and Philip Taylor's "Fragments of the Present" (2001) may prove useful in order to contextualize further the question of youth in contemporary Vietnam.
Good luck with your research, Darlene.
Christophe Robert
From judithh@u.washington.edu Fri Jul 16 09:04:36 2004
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 10:39:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Judith Henchy <judithh@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FW: Vietnam's younger generation (fwd)
From Mart Stewart:
I can add only a small note to a rich possibility for research. Seth Mydans article in the NY Times in 2000 (which I've pasted below) is merely a journalist's quick notice of the subject, but I was interested in what seemed to be a general tendency in discussions I had with my students of all ages when I used this article as a discussion reading in a variety of classes in HCMC and Can Tho between 2000 and 2003. What interested them most was not the idea of a "youth culture" or what the growing population of young people were thinking and doing, but the kinds of tensions that were emerging between generations -- and how these might work themselves out. I think, by the way, that Mydans' assertion that young people are "apolitical" is based on a narrow definition of "political." The article always inspired lively discussions, though when there was a good age range the younger participants of course usually deferred to the older ones. On one occasion, my fifty-something host pulled the reading before I was able to use it, saying it was "too controversial."
I also wonder if once one moves out of a consideration of a relatively small elite in the urban places of Vietnam and into the countryside, much of what one can say about a "youth culture" is mostly irrelevant. Great topic; best of luck,
Mart Stewart
Mart.Stewart@wwu.edu
-------------------------------------
Vietnam's Youth Stage a Gentler Revolution
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/12/weekinreview/12MYDA.html
November 12, 2000
THE WORLD
By SETH MYDANS
HO CHI MINH CITY, Vietnam -- Carefree, war-free, with multicolored sparkles in their hair, Vietnam's young people are leading a revolution in Vietnam today, and it's not a Communist one.
It is a revolution of creeping globalization, and as in Communist lore, there is a small but very influential group of the young in the vanguard. When President Clinton goes to Vietnam this week the first American president to visit since the end of the war 25 years ago he will have a chance to encounter a new postwar generation that is open, curious, acquisitive and hungry to join the outside world, if the youth one meets in the cities and at the universities are any indication.
"We like freedom," said Ta Thi Minh Hong, 19, a first-year student at the Institute of International Relations, expressing what seems to be a newly discovered idea. "We want to do everything we like."
At least, it's fun to talk like that. The idea of freedom is itself an experiment and it is still being defined here, by people of all ages.
In a dozen interviews here and in the capital, Hanoi, young people made it clear that they agree with their elders that traditional Vietnamese values are paramount, that willy-nilly change is dangerous.
The freedom that attracts them seems a purely personal one, focusing on behavior and consumer goods. Like youth culture in other countries, it seems notably apolitical. And indeed, the cautious youth revolution of Vietnam may fit very well into the new, open marketplace that is being permitted, step by step, by the Communist government.
"I'm really impressed by the way young people live in America," said Nguyen Cong Huy, 19, a high school student who dreams of studying engineering in America. "For example I don't want to talk politics but the way young people live, they're free to live on their own, to have the relationships that they choose, sexual freedom. But actually, there should be limits. When you have too much freedom it can lead to problems."
With that kind of worldview emerging, where better to seek cultural wisdom than at a market research company? And indeed, the Vietnam office of the ACNielsen company has an insight to offer.
"This is the first generation in Vietnam to experience a true youth culture, with shared values, identity, symbols and language," said Gordon Milne, an ACNielsen executive who has collated interviews with hundreds of young people. "In the past," he said, "you as a teenager were basically a young old person. Same beliefs. Same values. Now we are seeing a set of young people whose expectations, lifestyle and behavior are more and more different from their parents."
Advertisers beware, he said. The young are becoming savvy consumers. It is no longer enough simply to offer a foreign product. They want quality. They want brand names. They want whatever it is that young people want in other countries.
But they are still learning. Compared with other Asian nations, Mr. Milne said, "we are talking about 20 to 25 years difference in terms of youth culture."
And they are still hesitant. The youth revolution in Vietnam remains a modest and polite one.
One young rebel is notable in his crowd for wearing a nose ring. But it's a clip-on ring and he takes it off when he goes home. After all, he wouldn't want to offend his parents.
Clearly, it is still easier to be a parent in Vietnam than in many a country. But perhaps it takes a bit more work these days than it used to. "My friends quarrel with their parents because they're different from their parents in every way," said Miss Hong, the student. "But parents understand so much about life. Their advice is useful for me to be a good person. If I think my parents are not right, or they don't understand me, I talk out my ideas and we discuss it."
Even that represents a leap forward. In the past, when it came to morals and manners, parents ruled. Now there is MTV (though a tame version, vetted by the government), the Internet (though still expensive and limited), pirated foreign movies and, for the privileged, satellite television, travel and a foreign education.
Not long ago, everything Korean was cool fashion, makeup, music. But this is a youth culture; nothing lasts long.
"It doesn't matter, we can change quickly," said Nguyen My Nhung, 22, an auditor for a foreign company, raising her voice over the music at Hanoi's loudest discotheque, the New Century. "We have Internet access, satellite TV, fashion shows. We can try anything."
Like others with the money to go to a disco (many of them the children of the Communist elite) she was defensive about her privilege, asserting her solidarity with the great majority of Vietnamese who are poor.
Mr. Milne at ACNielsen acknowledged that his analyses are based on a tiny slice of society. "None of this extends to the guys working in the fields," he said. "Their lives have not changed significantly, unfortunately." But that does not mean that the ideas now percolating in the cities won't spread to the countryside. Indeed, a basic fact of life today is that most Vietnamese, whether rural or urban, were born after the war, and are the first for many generations to be raised in a time of peace (although it is also a time of poverty).
And yet Vietnam's history of war and the creation of an independent nation after its long colonization by the French are part of the fabric of life here. Even the bold talk of teenagers is cast in terms of the war.
"In the past they thought independence was the most important thing to focus on," Miss Hong said. "Now people in my generation don't care so much about it. We focus on music, fashion, making friends and going on picnics. My parents and their friends grew up in war, so they couldn't pay more attention to music or other habits, although they liked them. Now we're at peace, and if we want to we can learn about all fields in life."
Perhaps more than their counterparts abroad given the sacrifices they are constantly being told their parents made a number of those interviewed were sensitive about accusations that they are a Vietnamese version of a Me Generation.
"That's not true," said Nguyen Thanh Ha, 22, a graduate of National Economics University in Hanoi. "It's just the surface. You must look deeper inside."
"We are hard-working," she continued. "We want to improve our own lives first before asking others to do that for us." And she added: "You don't need a strike or a demonstration. Why should we spend our time demonstrating for democracy when we have so much more to worry about?"
Copyright 2000 The New York Times Company
From m.digregorio@fordfound.org Fri Jul 16 09:04:56 2004
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:31:11 -0700
From: Michael DiGregorio <m.digregorio@fordfound.org>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Vietnam's younger generation (fwd)
Dear Judith,
Thanks for bringing back this interesting article.
VTV expects to have direct to home satellite broadcasts available everywhere in the country by the end of this year. Combined with cheap Chinese satellite receivers, this is going to have a huge impact on the development of youth culture. Already, "needle nose" microwave antennas have become common attachments to rural homes across the lowlands and traditional nha san in highland areas. And gradually, the relatively new national market for goods and services, and relatively easy communications and transportation, is bringing urban and youth culture to the most remote areas. One wonders how this is changing the way generations interact. In many areas, it appears that the only thing holding back change in material culture is the lack of money.
I am wondering if anyone knows if Vietnamese ethnologists or anthropologists have conducted any studies of these changes that focus on intergenerational issues. Off hand, I can't think of any, or in fact, I can't think of any interest apartment from one folklorist who is interested in the development of contemporary urban "folk culture."
Mike
Michael DiGregorio, PhD
Program Officer
Arts & Culture, Education & Scholarship
The Ford Foundation
198 Tran Quang Khai Street, Suites 1502-4
Hanoi, Vietnam
Tel: 84-4-934-9766
Fax: 84-4-934-9765
From darlenedamm@mac.com Fri Jul 16 09:05:02 2004
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:19:28 -0400
From: Darlene Damm <darlenedamm@mac.com>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Vietnamese youth-- thanks!
Dear Vietnamese Studies Group-- thank you so much for all the great insights into Vietnamese youth culture.
Thanks for sharing your ideas for resources, as well as ideas about how one can analyze the phenomenon-- whether its looking at how new technology and money is impacting youths, looking at different demographics and geographic locations, examining the impact of globalization via personal relationships/marriage, or looking at new concepts of freedom or national/class/age identity that are emerging!
I really appreciate all your help and your ideas! It seems to be a large subject but one that is very fascinating. Thanh Nguyen-- please keep us updated on your research too-- it sounds very interesting and relevant!
Darlene