Ly Tombs
From paglaicc@hawaii.edu Thu Jun 10 11:42:23 2004
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:08:34 -1000
From: Gino Paglaiccetti <paglaicc@hawaii.edu>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Ly tombs
Does anyone happen to know where Ly Cong Uan (Thai To) and Ly Phat Ma (Thai Tong) are buried or where shrines dedicated to them are located? Are they near Ly Nhat Ton (Thanh Tong), who has a mieu in Ha Noi (Gia lam, I believe)?
Also can anyone verify for me that Ly Thuong Kiet (Thai Uy) has a den somewhere in Thanh Hoa?
Gino
From dnfox@u.washington.edu Thu Jun 10 11:42:31 2004
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: dnfox@u.washington.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Ly tombs
I'm not sure if Kate Jellema reads this list, but she has been working in Dinh Bang, where the Ly altars are located, and might be able to answer some of these questions. Her e-mail is katej@marlboro.edu.
I can offer a story from a village that claims Ly Thuong Kiet proclaimed "Nam Quoc Son Ha" from their shrine, leading to a victorious rout of the Chinese, if that fits anywhere.
best,
Diane
From daoduc@u.washington.edu Thu Jun 10 11:42:43 2004
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:51:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: daoduc@u.washington.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Ly tombs
The shrine dedicated to eight kings of Ly dinasty (Ly Bat De) is in Dinh Bang village, Bac Ninh province. When the state built a new road from Hanoi to Lang Son (2000?), archeologists found evidences of Ly tombs in a village nearby. This scientifical discovery created a big argument between the two villages on the question of where the truth home of Ly kings actually is. The resolution is another shrine appeared near the new road 1A. Prof. Tran Quoc Vuong should be the best person to contact for more details.
--Duc
From katej@marlboro.edu Thu Jun 10 11:42:52 2004
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:59:30 -0400
From: katej@marlboro.edu
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Hi Gino:
In addition to Ly Bat De temple for worship of the (male) Ly vua, there is a small subsidiary temple for Ly Chieu Hoang (the young girl whose marriage transferred power to the Tran). There are also grave mounds in Dinh Bang for each of the Ly vua as well as for Ly Cong Uan's mother Pham Thi. Until recently, these grave sites were unmarked and did not include any built structures. More recently, following the construction of a small altar and in anticipation of more devotional and historical tourism, there has been some debate about how best to mark the sites.
Kate
Kate Jellema
PhD candidate, Anthropology and History
University of Michigan
From m.digregorio@fordfound.org Thu Jun 10 11:43:11 2004
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:29:36 -0700
From: Michael DiGregorio <m.digregorio@fordfound.org>
Reply-To: vsg@u.washington.edu
To: Vietnam Studies Group <vsg@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Ly tombs
Dear Gino,
Cemeteries in Kinh Bac were often located in "forests." In the Tu son area, there were several such forests. The last to survive was Rung Sat, bordering Trang Liet village. In the early part of the past century, Dong Ky petitioned the colonial government to convert this land to agricultural uses. Their petition was refused. Dong Ky was considered to be encroaching on common land - at least that's what the people in Trang Liet say. Rung Sat is now the site of the College of Sports! I heard locally that "Tran family members" were buried there, but I have no outside source to verify this. Ly Cong Uan grew up in a pagoda on Tien hill nearby. There is a beautiful pagoda surrounded by graves at this site. But again, I don't know who is buried there.
Mike
Michael DiGregorio, PhD
Program Officer
Arts & Culture, Education & Scholarship
The Ford Foundation
198 Tran Quang Khai Street, Suites 1502-4
Hanoi, Vietnam
Tel: 84-4-934-9766
Fax: 84-4-934-9765